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HH2 voice changes - All talk - Team talk 
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Post Re: HH2 voice changes - All talk - Team talk
Tinkerer wrote:
Except just muting them?

People without mics can only listen in, not communicate. The text-to-speech is pretty horrid and not really an option, especially as that forces you to tab out of the game.


Press Y in game


Thu Apr 16, 2015 9:57 pm
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Post Re: HH2 voice changes - All talk - Team talk
frog wrote:
Tinkerer wrote:
EDIT: The main problem with having mumble for this sort of thing is that it doesn't accommodate shy people or people without mics.
If a shy person without a mic can join a TF2 server, then a shy person without a mic can join a mumble server. Mumble can accommodate anyone.

I think that you've made a straw-man argument.

Please consider this post


That's not what a strawman is, I did not invent an argument for you.

frog wrote:
I think that you are only considering what you want, and what you think other people want. However, the broader picture says otherwise.

Also please consider my previous post.


And you don't? A "broader picture" here is probably most easily gained from actually playing in the server for over the past few months. A vote actually shows the broader picture of, and this is crucial, people actually playing on the server, and I'm not sure if I understand you guys' problem with it. If the vote ends up in no all-talk then hey, that's cool too, if the vote ends in crit rockets all over the place, that's what most people wanted. It's as fair as can be, and served the server pretty well.

With regards to the previous post: How is someone who just joins the server on a text basis supposed to suddenly communicate over Mumble? Just look at what people do in Fight Nights: people who don't have mics or otherwise don't want to talk are muted, can only listen and react. No-one is going to alt-tab to type in the Mumble chat to have it read out in an awkward text-to-speech (which not everyone had turned on, even). The extra step of going to Mumble is a much easier one to take for people who already play seriously (and likely have it installed) than those who just joined for some casual TF2 play in the first place.


Thu Apr 16, 2015 10:01 pm
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Post Re: HH2 voice changes - All talk - Team talk
Quote:
Just look at what people do in Fight Nights: people who don't have mics or otherwise don't want to talk are muted, can only listen and react.


Actually they press U to type to their team.


Thu Apr 16, 2015 10:05 pm
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Post Re: HH2 voice changes - All talk - Team talk
Tinkerer wrote:
All of these things can happen with having the chats the different way around, too - people in Mumble can talk about the other team (not that this ever happens, that seems kind of negative), and if people on the server itself are autobalanced they're able to talk about what their ex-team had, too. They're both kind of non-issues because it's not something that ever seemed to exist and it's a small enough community that the people who would would get called out anyway.
They are issues, even if you don't see them as issues because doesn't suits what you want.

There are important subtle differences, that you have perhaps overlooked.

Listening in on another channel is a passive activity, less obvious and can go unnoticed.

Directly telling people on an opposite team what is happening is a direct action, is obvious and gets noticed.

That is a big difference.

Plus it is definitely annoying for people that want play for team to have to tab out to change channels.

Talk that helps a team and is about the game needs to have priority, simply because it makes for a better game.


Thu Apr 16, 2015 10:05 pm
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Post Re: HH2 voice changes - All talk - Team talk
frog wrote:
By using TF2 and mumble together it means that everyone, without exception, gets what they want with regards to voice comms. I really think it's the best all-round thing to do.

The people that want to enjoy a really good game of TF2 with great teamwork, which is what our servers were (are) renowned for in the 7+ years that they have been running, can get that uninterrupted.

The people that want to just chat and socialise, and aren't so bothered in team comms, can get that.

And the people that want both, can get that too.

I can't think of a fairer or more considerate or simpler solution. Can anyone else?

All it takes is a one time thing of downloading mumble, installing it, and then joining our server and making a bookmark. Which we've made as easy as possible. :)


Thu Apr 16, 2015 10:15 pm
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Post Re: HH2 voice changes - All talk - Team talk
frog wrote:
Tinkerer wrote:
All of these things can happen with having the chats the different way around, too - people in Mumble can talk about the other team (not that this ever happens, that seems kind of negative), and if people on the server itself are autobalanced they're able to talk about what their ex-team had, too. They're both kind of non-issues because it's not something that ever seemed to exist and it's a small enough community that the people who would would get called out anyway.
They are issues, even if you don't see them as issues because doesn't suits what want.

There are important subtle differences, that you have perhaps overlooked.

Listening in on another channel is a passive activity, less obvious and can go unnoticed.

Directly telling people on an opposite team what is happening is a direct action, is obvious and gets noticed.

That is a big difference.

Plus it is definitely annoying for people that want play for team to have to tab out to change channels.

Talk that is helps a team and is about the game needs to have priority, simple because it makes for a better game.


I'm not completely sure what you're saying here but for the most part this is all just theorycrafting on things that have never happened. I'm sure there's people who like alltalk off as well for similar reasons, though. What then is the problem with the vote, still? If a lot more people feel like you then we'll have alltalk off, and if there's more people who'd like to laugh at Terrible over the comms then that's fine too. What makes a better game is letting people play how they want to play, and a vote accomplishes that. It's a good middle ground.

I addressed your post in the previous post I made already, but thanks for passive-aggressively quoting it again. I think a vote (plus Mumble for those who'd like their own space) is a better solution than just having it forced off by default.


Thu Apr 16, 2015 10:17 pm
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Post Re: HH2 voice changes - All talk - Team talk
Tinkerer wrote:
I'm not completely sure what you're saying here but for the most part this is all just theorycrafting on things that have never happened.
Of course they haven't happened, because we aren't doing what you are suggesting. But they would be issues that we would have to deal with, if we did do what you are suggesting.


Thu Apr 16, 2015 10:23 pm
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Post Re: HH2 voice changes - All talk - Team talk
Muting all people on the opposite team is not practical.

Really it's a case of, is it better to cause a small inconvenience to most people, or a great inconvenience to some people?

You say the former, which is reasonable, I would say the latter. I would rather have more people on the server and have them be reasonably satisfied than fewer people that are very satisfied.

The other thing is - would people who come across our server stay for the team interaction or do they stay more for the social alltalk banter environment? Which is more helpful to us? I think both kinds of interaction are lacking in today's TF2 quickplay landscape and that either way we would grab people. But this is unknowable and unmeasurable, and we have to go with our gut and do what we think is best for the server. I'm genuinely sorry that we haven't arrived at a solution that you're happy with, you are hugely important to our server.


Thu Apr 16, 2015 10:25 pm
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Post Re: HH2 voice changes - All talk - Team talk
What I'm suggesting is what was the case on the server over the past year or so, and it didn't have any of those problems. It wasn't broke and there wasn't a reason to fix it.

Please stop ignoring the vote suggestion, isn't that a decent compromise?


Thu Apr 16, 2015 10:26 pm
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Post Re: HH2 voice changes - All talk - Team talk
Of course a problem wouldn't be apparent on the server, the people that weren't happy left. It is much more difficult for someone who hates alltalk to make themselves happy on an alltalk server, than it is for someone who loves alltalk to make themseleves happy on a a noon alltalk server

(sorry typing is awful, gta5 is open in background and typing has a delay)

A vote results in alltalk 100% of the time. that's not a compromise, it's one group always having their way.


Thu Apr 16, 2015 10:29 pm
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