some mighty fine bullet pointing going on in this thread.

Spawn camping to that level just ruins any chance of a descent "flow" that you would expect/want from a pub game.

Makes everyone rage as they dont even get a chance to have their input/effect in the the game.

We dont do it because it annoys people and we can easily do without it. we would have a lot more threads on people raging too, a hell of a lot more.

Def arguable in comp though, just think a good old fashion toe to toe is what you want out of pubs.

What I don't get is why spawn points aren't mapped out so the opposing team can't go right up to the doorway. (It would stop players from going back and getting full health and ammo in a second and making everyone rely on their Engi's dispensers more as well)

Because there'll always be a doorway beyond the first door that can be camped instead.

that and i think it is quite arguable that you should be able to do it, I personally think its kinda the teams fault for letting the player get there in the first place. but that would be harder to expect out of 12v12 pub's so it happens and annoys many.

Once you allow spawn camping you'll see more and more people dedicating their whole time doing it. That's when it gets really irritating.

Just going to throw my view in on top of all this; I agree entirely with Th and lolschi in that spawncamping is an entirely legitimate strategy to assist one's team in completing the game's objective. It can be overcome (even in a situation where there is only one spawn exit*) with a very little bit of communication or smart play, exactly as a sentry nest can.

It is correct in that the Badlands mid spawn directly in question is both one-exited, blind, and without a resupply locker. However, the communication and smart play remark still applies, and it is also important to note that the fact that the possessing team has pushed the spawncamper's right back onto their own last point, and one can thus infer that they are, on average, of a higher standard and/or have better coordinated teamwork.

So to sum all that up in a more hard-ass way that the others:

Stop whining and using the fact that it's your spawn door as an excuse, just deal with it like you would any other obstacle.

Like unbalanced teams? learn2play and remove scramble. If your team loses it's totally the teams fault. No point give them any help. Just deal with it.

The rules are set the way the majority want them, There is no tough and just deal with it. We say it's O.K in some situations and perfectly legitimate. But in other areas that can detriment the game to a large degree it will not be tolerated.

Linc is very correct in that as soon as it is broadly condoned then everyone wants to do it. Then you get people that don't want to play properly at all and their sole purpose is to get cheap kills by spawn camping constantly. We don't want these types on our servers.

That isn't gonna change, and no amount of personal opinion will budge this decision.

Th is correct in what he says in that sometimes to have effective laws/rules they are often unpopular and quite general/broad in their scope.

This is for the general good of all playing on our servers, end of discussion as far as I'm concerned.

Put simply.. if you have to rely on this sort of playstyle, you are not much of a player.

No one here is whining, we can all see the merits of spawn camping.

It bears parallels with why certain things are ruled out in other games... Carl Gustav, Noob tubing, AWP'ing. Yes they are all there and are very effective, however the quality of the game overall is most definitely negatively affected by their use.

If we allow excessive spawn camping to happen it will alienate our less talented player base.

Most of the people who have replied to this thread are of a skill level where spawn camping is a non-issue btw. So no one here is whining coz we nubz iz getting pwned or whatever nonsense you youngsters use these days.

Or at least if a 'nub' read this thread they'd go away knowing how to deal with it, eh?