Listen up to the people who have actually played the mod instead of people who just argue without any fruitable ground o_O

Tox, this is a discussion. Shoo. these smiles let you know that I'm not having a go and for you not to get serious or turbo-rude.

What is it with all the people thinking I'm going rude all the time. I went rude like 2 or 3 times in my 2 year HH time. And that was because I was raged up in reallife and just had to let it go (sadly it was the forums). Using words like "fuck, shit, fucking shit" doesnt always mean you have to be a bad or ragefully person. I just wanna say I'm a very emotional guy, what might cause me saying those words a lot

I'm afraid we get some player to the HH1 who think this plugin is sooo funny and then stay there. People like akj_1992, xxx_godlike_x92 and more (i just imagined these names btw).
Might really drop the reputation of HH1. even if its just for 3 days frogg the boss :>

Just tried this for the first time on HH1 on Granary. It is fun, no doubt about it. The slingshot effect actually allows you to jump further than the demo you are healing. Flying medics for the win.

That said, it means on rollout with a team with one medic, or a team with numerous medics, all using the jump plugin, the rest of the team will be slower to mid and the other soldiers and demos will be weaker as they won't get the heals needed.

So my thoughts are we really shouldn't have this on HH1 where we get most of the "serious" players. I wouldn't like it on the other servers either, however, that is personal preference as I am a bit of a purist, and can see that it could be included along with random crits, alltalk, etc where there is not so much emphasis on skillful, balanced play.

I don't see a great need for more medics, only better medics - the plugin does not help with this.


No, it doesn't remove these threats entirely, it simply increases medic survivability through increased mobility. Whereas I believe Medics can increase their survivability through, oh say, learning sightlines, learning the paths Spies commonly use and places they decloak (Spies are creatures of habit, and have the worst AI), checking for traps/knowing the likely trap locations, knowing when the enemy have uber, knowing when to push/retreat, identifying the strongest players on a team and enabling them to do what they do without making the rest of the team feel like you're ignoring them - you can look at the leaderboard at the start of any given map &, based on players, maps, & player combinations, know how a game is going to play out, and adjust accordingly.


That's true, and something that I figured was pretty obvious (I excised a lot of content from my initial reply because I know how people tend to react to posts containing anything more than a few words & a string of emoticons), but I'm still approaching this from the viewpoint that the entire endevour is silly, and added for spectacle instead of benefit to gameplay. It's the same mentality, only sillier, than the escalating Heavy Wars that are all too common any server - the enemy team has 2 Heavies? No problem, we'll have 2 too, no wait, we'll have 3, and so on.

Another issue. I recall that many months ago someone on the forum mentioned a possible item attribute that would incentivise healing a Heavy over the other classes, and it was shot-down by all. Now, with this plugin, I feel like that idea has made it in to the game, except the incentive now lies with the "jump" classes instead of the Heavy, and again I feel it can, and already has proven, to make bad Medics worse, not to mention the fact that you're using this attribute to attract people to play Medic the "wrong" way.

I've already seen Medics mono-rubberband-heal Soldiers and Demomen on mid-rollouts many times in the past 2 days leaving other team members low on health/slow to mid/without buff. There are, of course, smarter Medics, like Olschi/Gayben/Gaben (oh, wait, just one then) who do a reasonable job of being a good medic while rubberbanding all over the map, but the point is, the plugin is counter intuitive to good/smart team healing in the wrong hands, and you're only going to attract "wrong hands" with this plugin.

I am, by admission, highly critical of other Medics. It's not a difficult class to play to a competent standard, though it is a difficult class to be genuinely "good" at. Attracting people to play Medic is a noble quest, but the game doesn't need more bad Medics, it needs better Medics, and this plugin doesn't help with that.


I'm not sure how you came to the conclusion that I hadn't tried this? It's likely I've played more than most in the past 2 days.


Stalemates are, more often than not, caused by Sentry nests - Sentries have proven pretty darn effective against people in mid-air - if you want a truly effective way to combat stalemates, Engineer Limit 1/0 =)


So, much like the example I gave about Gravelpit C?

To which someone said:


Sure, it changes the meta-game, but does it make the game any better? Not in my opinion. Does it make the game any worse? Yes.


No, I don't think so. Yes, the community has great involvement in the future of TF2, and always have, but Valve still has final word on what is added to their game. Did they add this to the game? (I feel like you were being willfully ignorant to my original point, frog)

This plugin has been around, in one form or another, since 2009 and in the 2 years since the "idea" has been available within the community I would have thought that by this point Valve would have cherrypicked it for inclusion if they thought it was a good idea (it seems even half-baked ideas make it into updates, so maybe it doesn't even pass that test). Yet it hasn't, and hopefully won't.

Of course, I doubt any of this playful back & forth will have much impact on the decision making at the end of the trial (though I must admit to being rather shocked that the plugin was added without the consent of senior clan members, such as Ntrailz, and what that might mean for the decision-making process), but it has been a rare, and appreciated, opportunity to talk about TF2.

Off-topic: why do people insist on capitalising my forum name? =)

No, I wasn't. Of course there can only 1 single point of distribution of stock code, but there are a number of things that started out as mods, that have been incorporated into the game. This would not have happened without TF2 being treated as our game. I'm not saying this will be one of them.
Not wishing in anyway to draw a comparison between a plugin and a map, but instead about time-lines for inclusion. Gullywash has been around since 2009 too. So I think time is irrelevant (lunch-time doubly so)
It's probably automatic and done without thinking, in the way that a person's name is capitalised when writing to them.

Anyway this is just trial. Yeh, I took it upon myself to do this and see what the response would be. Same way as I try to do things to make the community more interesting and involving, to variable success. (What I still find most bizarre is that server with open regulated admin (HH5) gets so little use.)

Hypothetical question for you, this plugin aside. Which is better, a bad medic or no medics?

Generally speaking, people don't want control, nor responsibility, only the tangible illusion of it.


It's a perspective issue. The occasional "accidental" heal (the one you get when their favourite player is respawning, or there isn't a Sniper to buff) can be useful, but I prefer not to play TF2 with the Medic on your team being a variable. I know where there will always be an unmoving & loving resupply cabinet, that I can depend on, but the annoyance caused by a bad Medic (again, this is because being a Medic, I'm critical of Medics) can ruin a game.

More often than not, if the Medic(s) is terrible, I'll swap to play it myself (the above was written from the perspective of playing a combat class, though being a good "Co-Medic" is a valuable ability to have too.

On balance, a bad Medic is still better than no Medic, because at least someone will be getting healed some of the time - there are so many variables involved in these games that I could factor in, but let's just leave it as Bad is better than None.

Also, what about the people who come and play on HH for the 1st time? maybe after it being recommended by someone as being a 'high skill' server (for want of a better phrase), and they see medics flying about, they will think they have the wrong IP...or maybe its time to change the HH motto from 'mature and wiser gamer...' to something more like 'fun for all the family'.

In my eyes a bad medic is worse than none in some instances.

Yes, let me run over and heal an engineer while I let you battle by yourself on the frontlines..

As a solly I'd rather take the black box and wait at dispensers / medic packs than be cock-teased by shitty medics to my death countless times.

I am totally against this plug-in by the way..

Completely agree with this, the mod just seems so out of place on the HH. We don't need gimmicks to get people to play medic.