frog cant see the truth.

The truth is, HH1 is dead, HH2 is alive. Dont know why whenever I join HH1 in the evenings it is empty. I make announcements but takes hours to fill it, then I leave after its full for like 2 hours, come back, its empty again.

Frog - Master of being ignorant

I join whatever server is fullest.

But that CTF_doublecross vote pissed me off no end because it emptied the server in about 30 secs flat.
But then the other problem is custom maps, the regs might play them, but if you wanted lets say dustbowl, and cp_obscure gets voted in and you dont know about the fast map d/l or have d/l disabled, you are not going to hang about.

where as the HH2 map voting system maybe as annoying as an annoying thing thats really very annoying indeed, but at least we get a majority map, but then to play on HH2 you get the random crits in the face from some lucky bast you've just spend 5 mins working out the perfect ambush on.

Boris

Basically every time I joined HH1 to fill it, the next map after badlands has been a bad one and we didn't have a chance to vote on it.

Is it possible to configure the server to conduct another map vote after players have joined the server, so the people actually playing on it can vote on the next map?

Ah, the incontrovertible, immutable truth, if only it were so.

Tox, I'm really not sure what is your point is or what your plan of action or idea is. Surely this isn't simply a moan without any substance or construction? I don't see the absolute or black & white perspective you seem to have. To me a server with players playing on it is not a dead server, and a server that gets going most days is not a dead server.

I think everyone is aware of the effect that Quickplay has had on the TF2 server landscape, but I don't see the point in repeatedly bleating (or roaring) 'it's dead, it's dead'. I assume it's purely catharsis.

I guess that what you really want is for HH1 to be as busy as it was before Quickplay arrived. If I am right, then maybe you might consider if proclaiming it as being dead might possibly be counter-productive to that aim. I think if you want things to improve, then you need to feed in positivity and creativity.

Cut the insults and look beyond your own frustrations.

The map vote pretty much always occurs 7 minutes before the end of the current map. The voting system changed on HH1 in the last few days. I've had a look at all the maps that followed badlands in the map log, which were the bad ones?

Yesterday it was 20:25 pl_hoodoo_final
We filled the server in 5 minutes and then it changes to hoodoo, which nobody on the server voted for.

Even though a lot of people complained about the map, what cleared the server wasn't hoodoo, it was the daily crash fest that occurred during the map.
What's up with that?

I hope we don't have to get used to almost all people on the server crashing at least once per day.

Part of the problem seems to be that the map voting system creates a shortlist from the current player's mapvotes from the past. Fine in principle (And actually quite clever) but the main issue is that it's using people's opinions from years ago since it never asks for a an update on your opinion for maps. A map I enjoyed a few years ago I could be quite sick of by now. People can manually update their vote, but only when the map is on and only if they remember to use !maprate, which is probably not much.

Maybe if it re-asked for your map rating every year or so. That'd be enough.

If you joined after the map vote had been triggered then you would have missed it. To see what is possible please refer to http://code.google.com/p/sourcemod-ulti ... ser/w/list

The 'no steam logon' auth time-out is a long standing issue that affects all TF2 servers. TF2 servers don't actually crash. For an explanation read on our forum here.

This is the most recent update on this matter from Fletch at Valve.

It doesn't quite work like, so that's not an issue. Also the weighting of map rating is marginal, especially due to factors such as past map exclusion. For more info on the voting system: http://code.google.com/p/sourcemod-ulti ... ser/w/list

It's easy to dismiss Tox for being inarticulate & rude, but looking beyond his actual words it isn't difficult to divine his motivation for creating this thread.

frog, you're perfectly correct when you say the introduction of Quickplay to server 2 has significantly altered where TF2 is being played on the HH servers, and who is playing it.

Server 1 was the mainstay of the HH TF2 community. There were many contributing factors, but the most significant, as I see it, was this: A large number of regular players returning night after night to play TF2 amongst friends (& enemies). Since I started playing TF2 I had never seen such a strong core group of returning players, most of which would connect for hours at a time, then come back for more.

Over time, there have been problems:

Client - People stop playing the game entirely, through real-life changes, or disillusionment with the direction of the game's development.
Server - Months of network issues & poor performance saw the slow erosion of regulars, as people left to find new haunts, or in the scarcity/absence of good servers, stop playing entirely.

Still, it was rare for the server not to be populated on any given night.

Then, Quickplay is introduced to server 2 (July 2011?) & the impact is felt immediately:

Server 1:



Server 2:



Outside of injections of new content to the game, & not counting mongrel game-types as seen on Server 4, the servers have had a fairly consistent population for years. Server 1 was busy, the other servers were largely empty (correct me if I'm way off on this). However, with Quickplay enabled, Server 2 could be automatically seeded, and this has caused a population migration from Server 1 to Server 2. You can argue that people, if they really wanted to play on Server 1 then they could seed it, but that's not how people behave. Most people have a limited time to play games, & they're going to join the active server. Server 1 was busy every night because of years of learned behaviour. You learn the habits of other people over time & establish routines accordingly. To play with anyone you could start TF2 at 19:00 & be playing, or queueing to play a game on HH1 within moments, but at the back of your mind you also knew that at a certain time maybe your favourite Medic or the best Scout was going to be playing. Quickplay removed the behavioural aspect of this entirely (with regards to Server 1), and in the eyes of some, not for the best.

As it stands, I can identify maybe 4 general groups of players:

1.) People who find Server 2 through Quickplay.
2.) Former regulars on Server 1 that now play on Server 2 because they still see the occasional familiar face, can put up with a dilution of the server skill-level, not to mention the frustration inherent with Random Crits.
3.) The brave few I see attempting to seed Server 1 every few days, only for it to empty an hour or 2 later, then re-join Server 2 because it's nearly always busy, or find somewhere else.
4.) Those that have been driven away entirely, or play on Server 2 every so often just to "see".

Has there been a net increase in server population since the introduction of Quickplay? (I assume this was the intent of it's introduction) Or has the figure remained largely the same (maybe a slight increase, but not enough to sustain 2 servers), with people primarily playing on Server 2 instead of 1, at a possible cost to the long-established commuity that surrounded Server 1, the loss of which, and associated frustration, is what I'm assuming caused Tox to create this thread in the first place.

I sympathise with Tox. I miss a busy server 1 too. TF2 isn't as fun when you're:
a.) Not playing with people you know/aspire to be a good as.
b.) Getting killed by Random Crits.

Tox may have gone about this the wrong way, but I think his heart is in the right place.

Side note: Mapvotes aren't really a factor in any of this, so I don't see why it was mentioned. There are good maps & bad maps, but most of the time people will stay if there are people they enjoy playing with.

I agree with most of that. The IP change in July had an effect too.

What to do about it? Don't have a quickplay server? Shutdown HH2? Seems a bit drastic.

Alternatives?

Or this is thread just cathartic?