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|H|H| TF2 Server Configuration Rethink?
http://www.thehh.eu/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=8498		 Page 4 of 5
Author:  Telgor [ Wed Apr 25, 2012 5:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: |H|H| TF2 Server Configuration Rethink?
Vickery wrote:
3) Pyro. As vanilla? Yikes, he'd just be underpowered and puny.

5) Heavy. Not having access to the GRU is going to be so painful as to make the Heavy pretty much a dead class.

7) Medic. Was kritz in at the start? I picked up TF2 late so am not sure. Either way, I'd miss the variety if it's not allowed.

Come the vote I'll be saying no to vanilla.


3) Care to give reasons?

5) Yeah I can see the point here. Not much to say other than it worked in the past. NTrailZ, Extra Cold, etc all had no problems being top scorers without them. However, they would be missed.

7) Kritz was not in at the start. The Kritzkreig and Ubersaw are still included in "Classic" mode though.
Author:  Vickery [ Wed Apr 25, 2012 5:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: |H|H| TF2 Server Configuration Rethink?
Playing a pyro with updated gear feels fun and viable. You're a threat with the axetinguisher, even if it often ends up as one hilarious suicide mission. With vanilla gear, well, not so much.

With just the airblast to your name you are essentially a weak utility class. You can sweep stickies from SGs and other important areas, and you can deflect missiles, but there's no real way of killing anyone by doing that. Getting a kill with an airblast almost feels like a bonus.

Your main burn damage (without the BB crits) is very low and almost always leads to suicide runs which over time become dull.

Basically it'll be a pretty dull experience playing pyro with vanilla gear.
Author:  Fluffy [ Wed Apr 25, 2012 5:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: |H|H| TF2 Server Configuration Rethink?
Shotgun. Use it.

This is how you play pyro if you want to get kills and be useful:
http://youtu.be/oYuk3Q7wtLY
Author:  Vickery [ Wed Apr 25, 2012 5:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: |H|H| TF2 Server Configuration Rethink?
Ellery J Smith wrote:
Going Vanilla would make the Heavy balanced again, IMO. Which is good because right now in tf2, the team with the most Heavies usually wins. And heavy wars are usually pretty slow and dull. Taking away the GRU, Sandvich and Tomislav might help to even things out a bit.í


I am not sure that has anything to do with the GRU though! Also in TF2 any team that is dominating generally just needs to have a reshuffled defensive line up against them. A few more demos and an extra sniper can handle a lot of heavies, it's just on public servers that sort of organisation rarely happens.
Author:  Trent [ Wed Apr 25, 2012 6:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: |H|H| TF2 Server Configuration Rethink?
GRU has very little effect on a 12-man team winning a round.
Author:  Ellery J Smith [ Wed Apr 25, 2012 7:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: |H|H| TF2 Server Configuration Rethink?
...
Author:  Boris_Fly [ Wed Apr 25, 2012 9:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: |H|H| TF2 Server Configuration Rethink?
Telgor wrote:
Vickery wrote:
3) Pyro. As vanilla? Yikes, he'd just be underpowered and puny.


Come the vote I'll be saying no to vanilla.


3) Care to give reasons?



The extra 10% damage the BB gives over stock for a start(which is actually slightly less than the regular flamer gave in 2007) +plus the crits if you are stupid enough to let me get behind you , losing the degreaser for me is no sweat since its just a slightly weaker flamer.
Losing my detonator would be a huge loss, partly because I use it for long range heckling, (and we all know how good I am snap shotting flares off :D )and partly because I use it for flare jumping that can get me places you're not expecting a pyro to appear from. :twisted:

Without those 2 items I might just as well stay babysitting an sg occasionally blowing stickies away. and maybe just once in a 30 min game get an uber to clear a cap point...

The axetingusher.... only really ever use it after setting fire to a demoknight

All 3 of the above weapons are very much an upgrade to the regular pyro stuff, much more so than any other class

Boris
Author:  Gimpy [ Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: |H|H| TF2 Server Configuration Rethink?
Fluffy wrote:
Shotgun. Use it.

This is how you play pyro if you want to get kills and be useful:
http://youtu.be/oYuk3Q7wtLY


Wow he's better then minty or Lt Dan
Author:  Efrath [ Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: |H|H| TF2 Server Configuration Rethink?
The GRU only allows Heavy to get faster to the heat of battle alternatively get behind of people. His unlocks are Sandvich which now FORCES you to taunt if you want health from it, making him an easy target if you come across him doing it.

The Tomislav will always be beaten by a heavy using some other gun and there and it'll most likely have changed made to it at some point anyway.

I really don't feel there's any "OP" weapons, merely unbalanced ones and it's usually nothing that a bit of positioning or thinking can't handle. In general, stock weapons for most classes are the best ones with a couple of exceptions.

Now spy... Well, I know you lot hate the DR, I'm not too fond of it either but they are usually pretty easy to handle. I've said plenty of times that it's enough to keep an eye on the scoreboard. Is the spy you just killed suddenly back to life on the scoreboard? Then he's probably nearby. Don't bother chasing him unless you can quickly pick up nearby health and ammo packs.

Enforcer, well it's going to receive a nerf, it's already in the beta and it will most likely pass. It's unbalanced at most though rather than "OP". Yes, it can 2 shot 125 classes but hey, engie and scout already can do that as well and scout is one of the, if not the most, powerful classes in the game. On top of that, the revolver isn't accurate enough to really handle a scout spamming the space button with the exception of the first shot His speed combined with fast jumping and lag compensation (Yes, I went there) can make it really difficult to hit a good scout and a spy in general IS screwed if he's up against a good spy.

And Engineer already have an advantage against spy with his sentry, dispenser and shotgun. No, seriously, if both the spy and Engineer are equally skilled, the engi will most likely win. In short, those classes isn't at a disadvantage even IF the spy is using the enforcer. It's still an unbalanced weapon of course, but I don't want to see people pretending that it's suddenly easy to kill 125 classes now. Why did I leave sniper out of this? Because it doesn't really make a huge difference a majority of the time. Usually, if the player uses replaced uncloak sound or good headphones/Speakers combined with where the spy uncloak will be the only moments when there is a confrontation where the spy doesn't have the edge of surprise.

Medics still dies from 3 shots, no matter if it's the enforcer or the revolver and once The Enforcer receives its nerf, I'm pretty sure even less people will use it.

You might say "Yes but that's later". Of course it'll be later, but if a majority of the players vote on vanilla now, will they even consider changing their opinion even if items gets balanced? Is unbalance really the only reason you want vanilla? Or is it that it's simply easier to deal with stock weapons only rather than adapt yourself to whatever tactics unlocks might require?

It's far too common in most games for people to shout "OP" instead of adapting themselves to it. It's why balancing is decided by competitive players and the creators rather than the general public.

I'm hungry, I think I shall eat breakfast and just let errors and bad arguments stay in my post and deal with replies instead later.
Author:  Kiss Kiss [ Thu Apr 26, 2012 4:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: |H|H| TF2 Server Configuration Rethink?
All pyro needs is airblast. I do wish they'd reduced the damage from burning and increased the direct damage though. Oh well.

I'm not too bothered though. Some unlocks I'd prefer to not exist, but there are a few which are worthy additions. Ofc everyone has their own different ideas about what those unlocks might be. Prolly easiest to to make a vote between all unlocks and vanilla+medlocks.
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