This isn't about censorship. If censorship is the answer to dealing with language then all it will do is create bad sentiment in those who have been censored as they will still beleive that they are doing nothing wrong. Censorship is an imposition of someone else's view of what's acceptable on someone else.

As for Rape v. Murder.

When was the last time you were taunted in-game 'Hahahaha murdered'?

Or after a particularly successful outing you brag to your mates 'Man we totally murdered them'

Dunno about you but I never hear it used in that context, and that's the point, it's all about the context something is used in.

I don't buy the whole 'Rape happens to everyone' argument either. As SHP says, rape is about subjugation, humiliation and domination, and applies in the most part to sexual violence against women. It's use is purely as a result of gaming being such a male dominated culture for so long, disconnected from any sort of female perspective or moral repercussions.

Education is one answer, but I also think it requires communities like HH to take a leading position by representing the values of respect that we're talking about here, and it pleases me no end to hear what SophiD has to say about the place.

I hear these regularly.

My point was to put rape into perspective of murder, and the possibility of it becoming a sudden norm because teenagers use the word without thought.

My response does not take into account rape being used as an insult, but rather it becoming a norm to the point where 'rape culture' would apply in real life, and not in theory. I chose murder because of the massive coverage it attracts, yet murder is not a norm in sociality. Normal people won't kill each other, it still isn't, and never will be, normal to take the life of another human being. That is why rape will never become normal in society.

I think you're deviating from the issue.

The issue, as far as I can see it here, is whether the use of language by a predominantly male player base constitutes sexual harassment, or creates a culture conducive for women to play without being degraded, insulted or uncomfortable.

It's difficult to use the number of women gamers as an indicator of this, because it may well be the case that many of the high profile games played still aren't that attractive to many women to play, but the male-dominated culture, in which language such as Rape is prevalent absolutely is a factor.

I dislike the use of the word Rape.

I worry that using it trivialises rape, turns it into a bit of a joke for those throwing the term around so lightly and laughing. It's not. I don't think some men fully realise how much the awareness and fear of rape constrains the lives of many women.

But at the same time, I don't want men to suddenly feel they have to police and censor themselves because a woman has joined the server, and then breathe a sigh of relief when she leaves because they can be themselves again. That puts pressure on the woman. And that's why I don't say anything. I don't want to spoil peoples' fun.

What I'd like is for people to stop using such language simply because it's stupid and childish. Ditto terms like gay and F*ggot. It's language of the playground, not of adult gamers.

(by the way, this isn't a problem I've experienced much on HH servers; they're good to play on. I would not play on a server where unpleasant language was the norm)

I couldn't have said it better Berath.

I wonder why it's never occurred to me to say in-game "we're being raped"; the only thing that actually comes to mind is "oh we're being (steam)rolled here!!" (another word with "r" - coincidence? I think not)

As with everything in life, education is key. I cannot expect pre-teens or teens to have developed mindfulness or to have a thorough understanding of what they are saying - maybe that's why they shouldn't say it in the first place - oh wait - that would be being mindful, we can't have that now can we......

But hey, having been a child minder for 1 year has taught me that children are blissful in their unawareness and are sometimes unwilling to learn/understand because what is currently on offer is funny/annoying enough for them to persist in the usage of...

In a world that grows more and more impervious to compassion, the only thing to do is create a TF2 mod where everything is PINK with little hearts flying around... and guns shoot chocolates! woo!!!

Heres my take on things related to abuse of women gamers

I've played with every age group from a 10 yr old allowed to play TF2 by his mom, to the grimey old veterans of many a fortress game.
And the most abuse comes from 1 specific age group
13-17 boys
Sometimes because they are not as good at the game as they think they are, but mostly because at that age.. you're a complete arse (I should know, I was)

At that age when you're pwned by someone with the nick "Susan" , all you can see is that fact you were killed by a girl, making you think that your standing in the online gaming community has been lowered, and you lack the self control to say "damnit, good shot/move" rather than the tirade of abuse you did say.

But then, the abuse does not seem to be as great a problem in TF2 since it seems to atteact the more mature player, and its far more likely that an admin could be lurking on the server holding the ban hammer and just waiting for someone to step out of line.


Boris

PS if any guys want to experience what its like, just sign onto a modern warfare or BF server with a woman's name... then go pwning ppl ... but dont come whining to me if you've had 8 requests for date, 4 asks to see your chest , 2 marriage proposals and a weirdo who sent you a pic of his you know what

Maybe all the arguing about certain words may come from them being foreigners. The "rape" word does not subconsciously evoke any heartbreaking feelings for me (although I know it's bad for one to live as victim or as a friend/family of some victim), but in my own language the same word is almost the worst thing I can hear.

I think it is today's society problem. Women are being portrayed as sexual objects and men are being portrayed as some machos. Some women also like being sexually "harassed" (because they feel like they need to be like that) and they are not ashamed of putting revealing pictures of themselves on the internet. And also media feed us crappy portrait of today's society.

I have never used any harsh words against anyone (my GF hates that I can't even argue with her and I am just silent - even though I am right) let alone girls/women. Everyone who is not sorry for bad words used against anyone (after a few moments/days/years) is plainly an immature selfish _____ (fill what you want to fill here).

Sometimes I weep for humanity because everyone is being fed by everyday bullshit. But that is not in any way an apology for being an asshole that can't behave. And what is the worst is the parents not taking their parenting seriously and raising their kids to be spoiled brats. These brats think that their game score is the most important thing in the world and when some girl kills them they are raging because they are plainly stupid and can't play or can't take the fact that someone is better than they are. And they are insulting women because they can't get one.

Everybody should treat women nicer than they are treating men, I can't see nothing wrong with it. They don't smell bad, they are not ugly and they should be treated as good as it can be. Because men would not survive without women.

If said in a way of abuse, then regardless of the word, its wrong because its abuse.

I'm fine with it being used in the context of "we're being raped". So many words are used for impact probably cos people are limited to text.

On the whole though its the same as any abuse/trolling on the net. Dont rise to it and they'll generally stop. Just like parents tell their kids about bullying.

And yes community's like us should set the example, online gaming is still evolving rapidly and no doubt these people will become singled out more in communities, eventually.

The vast majority of gamers(men?) are sexist. Most probably don't consider themselves to be sexist. I don't like to think of myself as sexist, but I use some pretty ugly words and have no doubt contributed to this culture. Its more born from ignorance and insensitivity then any kind of malice.

I don't really think its exclusive to gaming either, its probably made worse by demographic. In general I think most feel that sexism has been "defeated" so we are left with this insidious sexism in our culture, the existence of which is denied. Feminism, perhaps partly to the fault of a few loonies, is seen as unnecessary or worse and progress towards real equality is slower than ever.

http://youtu.be/l8I0Wy58adM
Somebody linked me to this recently. I think its quite interesting to see the kind of response it got. So yah, I hope I dont come off sounding like a white knight or w/e, but I'm quite glad the BBC wrote an article shaming us. Its about time I think. Hopefully gamers actually think about how they behave online rather than denying there is anything wrong.