I can't disagree with this. All I will say though is that if your team is using more than 1 melee guy you are probably reducing your teams overall effectiveness. (Also the CI are never really a threat to a decent player in VS even in L4D1.) Melee might pack a punch but you have no range to deal with much smarter human SI, it'll get you into trouble real fast to try to chase them down to bash them lol.

DE is friggin awesome though on a side-note really lives upto the handcannon monicker, why anyone would take a melee weapon over it is beyond me.

Got it the wrong way round Pils But yeah the weapons are very different first thing i thought was wow this spaz is really accurate and tight, im not to sure if i agree with you about the snipers though pils, hunting is still last resort really, the 30 round one is nice and mayby shouldnt go through zombies or something but dont see any major issues with it. Melee is largely useless as it cant be used on special infected and you will take more damage when using it, from infected/FF although in situations where hordes are arond it is particularly handy

Also the AI is way better (infected wise) they work together well, yesterday i got pinned and then a spitter came and gave me some which was alot of damage but means teammates couldnt get me up, smokers are usualy very good now too and can drag you without getting killed often as they are jsut so cunning. The witch now goes for nearest target if the one who startled her is too far away, making her much more effective. The charger is think is great, if he hits you you take a fair chunk of damage although he is quite inaccurate at times and charges from across the map, but in versus i think he will be the killer really.

Map design is way better now and you need to explore and make choices, if you are doing to well certain routes are locked of from you, and the park area is briliant, open but still very hard to do, and the choice of left or right aswell as the harder but more rewarding centre.The running sections arent just a smal jog as i thought they were gonig to be and are a hell of alot harder than the corner camping equivalents from l4d, and the level changing mechanic here was good too making it shorter the 1st time i played as we werent donig great.

The addition of new sounds and damage models gives a nicer feel and the sounds actually make it a fair bit harder as you are unsure whether you have a charger hunter boomer female boomer or spitter or combinations of them

And also i saw a tank boomer biled and he still went on to kill all 4 of us as the common zombies do pitiful damage when put in comparison to his 4k health What it does add thought is a nice alernative but more often than not downgrade from the get out of jail free pipe bomb, in esence i think its liek the opposite of a moltov in that it gets the zombies somewhere but doesent kill them a moltov kills them but they wont always walk through it, this though really helps in that pipes arent littered around the place to the point you dont actually have to shoot, making it again harder.

I cant really say much about the charecters as i dont play a fps for the charecter development, i play it to blow shit up and a bit of story although Ellis banging on about sucking heads for the 50th time is about the most annoying thing ever

First time playing left 4 dead, but i think it's fun =). Tho I could imagine it being repetitive.

I've seen people playing as infected somehow though, how's that possible? :S

Need someone with rcon access to the server.

Should work doing the following. Grabbed from another forum

Admins:
-Start a game on any difficulty of your choice.
-type "rcon plugin_allow_remote_commands 1" to allow players to choose sides.

All Players:
-"set_infected 0" to join the Survivors.
-"set_infected 1" to join the Infected.
-"plugin_cvar kill" to end the round.
-"plugin_cvar sb_all_bot_team 1" if you want to fool around in Single Player or troll the Survivors with your friends.

Note:

-Best played 2-on-2 on Expert or Advanced difficulty.
-It's not possible to advance to the second map unless the Survivors successfully make it to the safe room and shut the door.
-Tanks cannot be controlled.
-Special Infected will respawn almost instantly after death.
-Special Infected will sometimes spawn with two or more of the same class.
-Distance-based Hunter pounce damage is not present, despite the screen shake and sound effect if pounced from a longer-than-normal distance.

call me bitter but....

its the same game with a few extra new zombies... i found noting new or intresting that made me go, "oh thats good!" part from maybe the still alive song in the jukebox, but i really feel that its same ol' thing be fun for 5min then get boring dead fast.

I be passing on this till its about £10 or free

Are games getting worse or are we just getting more boring?

call me bitter but...

its the same way you felt about l4d with a few less nitpicks. i found that you didint play l4d so much that made me go '' oh thats pro!'' part from maybe a few versus games we played, but really i feel it the same ol' way you felt about l4d just got bored faster.

I be pasing on this unless you will be playing 10hrs or a day

all in all i think thar a few things people tend to miss out.

- Charger has been nerfed since the release. He could pummel you to half helth on normal in 3 sec and was undodgable

- Mollie'd Tanks now deal extra fire damage got tanekd down last night and took dot on top of the normal incap damage.

- melle kills SI in one hit ( can kill a charger 1 sec b4 he connects with the charge if you time it right)

Hordes spawn more frequently and you have less ammo.

Bile bomb doesnt nullify the tank it just slows him down. We did that yesterday and he still took 2 of us down while biled.

Wandering witches are a pain.

Also one question to people saying 'it a lot of the same'. What did you expect ? it's a sequel, they are not gonna change the winning formula, just build on top of it.

Wisty out. Over.

Yer where is my persistant multiplayer racing game with RPG like driver attributes and full car customisation Valve?! You bastards let me down

That's Left 4 Dead 2 Fast 2 Furious.., or L4D2F2F for those of us who like acronyms