You want lots of the changes to make people use a bit more variety than seeing too much the same loadout. I got something to say about that. Even though weapons are balanced to be equal fair, it doesn't mean that it will make a much bigger variety of loadouts. People would still use how they like to play and what thei're favorites are. This is the same in lots of games with variety of weapon choices, some of them will be more popular as others which can make 80% use it more than the other ones because they are more fun to use or easier to learn. There would still be lots of Eyelander demoknights, Gunboats soldier, so it won't always be resulted to what the weapon changes are meant to do. Even though that's what you to change weapons to have more variety of use, it doesn't mean that majority wants it.

We were not satisfied because weapons were changed too fast so the playstyle was already majorly updated, so rounds could get unfair against the boss. Some of the buffs was making some classes having more ability to get stronger against the boss.

Let's be honest, who uses the shotgun as main dmg dealer when you have a flamethrower as primary?
Or any airblast-shotgun combo knowing that airblast builds rage and the shotgun deals 100ish dmg assuming you get a clear shot, after that you either die or keep airbalsting until you die.

On the other hand flares give you mobility, damage over time, knockback AND better dmg at long range.
There is no comparison.

I understand that can it be annoying to deal with incendiary shotguns with a few handful of hales, but it's not going to be as before since only 3-4 players max will have them in a full server.

Which was why I though it would be better to tweak it a bit more to make it used more. The Flamethrower deals low dmg overall against the boss if attacked directly excluding if you play as Phlog pyro, you rely more on airblasting and protecting your team, which is mostly engineers. It builds rage without damage, but its understandable for airblasts since they are effective as damage if they're used to support their team and keep away from being spammed.

That's the way the Flaregun is supposed to be like you say but it doesn't mean it would be a good idea to add incendiary reserve shooter. The reason is that it's a bad idea to add hitscan weapons with afterburn when you can set them on fire across every sights of the boss you can't find a way to dodge. A boss like Zer0 gets more useless on big maps cause sniped with afterburn from shotguns across the map. And about 3-4 max which is only pyros but soldier are unlimited.

No, I want changes so that people have the option to not be entitled to one best loadout. I'm not forcing them. If they rather want to keep playing the same loadout over and over again, that's their choice. I'm doing this mostly for the people who are bored of doing the same thing forever. Surprise, not everyone likes to play Eyelander Demoknight, not everyone likes to play Gunboats Soldier, not everyone likes to play Minigun Heavy all the time. And when they don't want to play said playstyle, they have to handicap themselves, which is unfair. Why can't you understand that?

Rounds we're already pretty unfair to begin with. If you want to make them fair again, look at the hales, not at the weapons, since that is where the majority of everyone's complaints are coming from. As of now, playing hale is one frustrating and stressful task, the main reason why I have it disabled. Fix that first.



Yes, excuse me for being tired of doing the same shit over and over again and I don't think this solely goes for me. Why are you so upset for weapon changes that barely effect your playstyle?

So now I'm starting to give up explaining this to you again.

You are starting to ask me unrelated questions to this like why I'm upset for weapon changes that barely effect my playstyle, well we are explaining this because these major changes are not always fair against the boss. The major problem are not the boss balancing but it's the boss getting nerfed and mercs keeps on getting buffs as the server has been active. Even though from this, a major weapon change that happens before we could start speaking about it. Lots of these changes were mostly buffs and grants an extra ability to a class who were already powerful enough.

Yet, I'm not the only one who thinks this way but no matter how people tries to give this simple explanation, you are still trying to defend your own ideas in an agressive way and pushes this topic further to somewhere else.

Don't know what else to say.

I'm not sure what bosses have been nerfed, I assume very few considering the amount of noise about underpowered bosses. But from what I can tell, a truck load of bosses have been buffed rather than nerfed. The idea is to make the mercenaries have a fair fight against the boss that they face. And yes, you're going to lose as boss from time to time - just soak it up.

These weapon changes aren't granting any extra abilities for a class. As mentioned countless times, it provides an alternative set of choices to play with or against. An extra ability would be something like giving the spy triple jump without a price for example. And I'm not sure how you would determine the power of a class.

Erm, that's why feedback exists.

So now you're starting to tell me that I'm rather not satisfied about these changes because I will lose more as boss. When did I even start with that discussion that we lose as boss from time to time and can't accept it? What I started talking about was that not only I, was not satisfied about how some of the weapons was changed.



Well, I did not say in a high number. The Demo Booties was adding more mobility and made the demo stronger with sticky jumps than using a non-minicrit primary which is not worth over. And the extra ability for snipers to use Shiv jumps to get up higher spots, but I don't need to say anything about that because it was removed.



This change happened before we were able to give feedback first and lots of changes happened at once. We already talked about this in this topic.

Then explain why they're unfair against hales. These weapon changes aren't carved in stone and I'm sure if you can give a reasonable answer as to why these changes are so unneeded, then it will get changed. These changes don't give the mercenaries a buff. These changes give a part of their arsenal a buff. A mercenary buff would be more in the sense of giving all Heavy minguns a +20% increase in damage, or Soldiers a 50% reload speed increase to all of his rocket launchers. The only class "buff" was for Demo, which were the grenade launcher buffs, but those came at the cost of a small Demoknight nerf and a huge Stickybomb Launcher nerf. So it's more of a rework rather than a flat out buff.

As I said, these changes will not be carved in stone. Why do you think Blinx made this thread in the first place? Besides, these changes don't grant the mercs an extra ability, these changes grant the mercs the option to switch between abilities. That's the entire purpose of the weapon system. You can switch between weapons while getting and sacrificing certain things. The unfortunate thing was that most of these weapons couldn't handle their own in FF2, which most of these changes took care of. That's what I'm trying to say.

And no matter how hard I try to explain that these changes only allow different playstyles instead of flat out buffing the mercs' power capabilites, you won't accept it. Besides the Machina, that is. And what else do you expect me to do when people just want to push me away because I'm not qualified enough?

Sorry, but I'm giving up on this discussion. Nothing more comes from me.

Is it possible to remove merc's dmg boost or is that something only frog can remove?

EDIT: Also could get eyelander / HHH Axe and the golf weapon some speed back? or did it already happen